The downside page · 14 CFR 61.51(g)

Instrument training and actual IMC

Southern California suits a fast instrument rating and does not suit logging time in real cloud. Both halves of that sentence are true, and only one of them usually gets published.

355 training days, measured363 days cleared basic VFR minimums40% of June 7am observations met minimaMost of your 40 hours will be simulated
Read the instrument rating pillar
355days a year training was possible at this field
363days that cleared basic VFR minimums
40%of June 7am observations met training minima
93%of June 11am observations met them
The honest position

How much actual IMC will you get training in Los Angeles?

Not much, and you should plan on that rather than hope otherwise. The same measurement that makes this field good for tempo makes it thin for real instrument conditions: across the twelve months ending 1 August 2026, NOAA ASOS observations at Van Nuys produced 355 days on which four daylight hours held a 3,000 ft ceiling and five statute miles, and 363 days clearing the lower basic-VFR threshold, 1,000 ft with three statute miles.

Those two figures are the argument. A field where almost every day clears visual minimums for a large part of the daylight is a field where a student flies four times a week and finishes the rating in two or three months. It is also a field where the sky is very rarely doing the thing you are training to handle.

This does not make the rating less valid. 14 CFR 61.65(d)(2) counts actual and simulated instrument time identically toward the forty hours, and 14 CFR 61.51(g)(1) lets you log instrument time whenever the aircraft is operated solely by reference to instruments under actual or simulated conditions. A rating earned here is the same rating.

What it does mean is that you will finish with a certificate whose privileges exceed your direct experience of the conditions those privileges permit. That is worth knowing on the day you enrol rather than on the first morning you launch into an overcast on your own.

So this page exists to say the thing plainly and then to be useful about it. There is a real gap. It is closable. Here is where the weather actually is, and here is what to do about the rest.

Where the weather is

When does Van Nuys actually have instrument conditions?

In the mornings, mostly between late spring and late summer, and briefly. The marine layer is the whole story, and the hour-by-hour data shows it clearly.

The marine layer, in numbers

Through June, 40 per cent of the 7am observations here reached training minima of 3,000 ft and five statute miles. By 11am that had risen to 93 per cent, and from 1pm it ran between 97 and 100 per cent. The same pattern shows in August, where 84 per cent of 7am observations met the standard.

Read that backwards and it becomes a training plan. The 60 per cent of June mornings that did not meet a 3,000 ft ceiling are where the low cloud in this region lives. It arrives overnight off the ocean, it sits over the basin at dawn, and it burns off through the middle of the morning.

What that gives you, and what it does not

It gives you genuine low ceilings on a predictable schedule for several months of the year, which is more than most people at this field ever take advantage of. It does not give you a frontal system that sits for two days, and it does not give you ice.

It is also transient in a specific way that matters for training: the layer is often thin, so an approach into it can break out early, and a climb through it reaches sunlight in minutes. That is a mild version of the thing you are learning, and it beats none at all.

The comparison nobody makes honestly

The same NOAA dataset measured other fields. Everett in Washington returned 278 training-capable days and Hillsboro in Oregon 277, against 355 here. A student in the Pacific Northwest gets substantially more actual instrument time and loses roughly eleven more weeks a year to weather.

Neither is simply better. If your priority is finishing an instrument rating inside a fixed budget and a fixed calendar, this field wins clearly. If your priority is arriving at your first job having flown a lot of approaches in real cloud, it does not. We think the first priority is the right one for most people on a career route, and we think you should choose it knowing what you are trading.

What we are not going to claim

We are not going to tell you that a view-limiting device is the same as cloud. It is not. The device removes the outside picture; it does not remove the knowledge that the picture is there, and it does not produce the particular quiet that arrives when an airplane enters a solid layer.

We are also not going to claim we can schedule actual instrument conditions for you. Nobody can. What we can do is put the airplane on the schedule at the hour the conditions occur, which is early, and which is why the marine-layer months are worth planning around instead of sleeping through.

Closing the gap

How do you get real instrument experience from a field like this?

Five things, in rough order of how much difference they make. None of them is expensive and the first one is free.

1

Schedule the dawn slot from May to August

The marine layer is a morning phenomenon and the 7am data proves it. A student who only ever books mid-morning lessons in June will finish the rating having seen none of it. Ask for the early slot deliberately, with an instructor, on the days the forecast supports it.

2

Fly the coastal approaches rather than the convenient ones

Fields nearer the water hold the layer longer than the valley does. Planning the 250 nautical mile cross-country at 14 CFR 61.65(d)(2)(ii) toward the coast in the morning rather than inland in the afternoon costs nothing extra and changes what you see.

3

File IFR when you do not have to

Once you are rated, filing on a clear day keeps the system familiar: the clearance, the readback, the routing, the handoffs. The skill that decays first is not the scan, it is the fluency with air traffic control, and it decays in months rather than years.

4

Treat 61.57(c) as a floor rather than a standard

Six approaches, holding procedures and tasks, and course interception and tracking, inside six calendar months, is what keeps the rating legal. It is not what keeps you good. Fly more approaches than that, and fly some of them with an instructor rather than a safety pilot.

5

Buy dual on the first genuinely hard day

When a day arrives with a real ceiling and you want to go, take an instructor instead of going alone. It is the single most useful purchase available to a newly rated instrument pilot, and it is worth far more than another twenty hours behind a hood.

Two kinds of instrument time

What is the difference between actual and simulated?

Legally almost nothing; experientially a great deal. Both are logged as instrument time under 14 CFR 61.51(g)(1) and both count toward the forty hours at 61.65(d)(2).

Simulated

Behind a view-limiting device

A hood or a set of glasses removes the outside world while a safety pilot or an instructor watches for traffic. It teaches the scan, the procedures and the workload, and it is available on any day of the year.

Best forBuilding procedural competence quickly and on a schedule.

  • Counts toward the 40Yes
  • Needs a safety pilotYes, unless dual
  • Available hereAlmost every day
  • Teaches the scanWell
Actual

In cloud

The outside world is gone rather than blocked, the transition happens without your permission, and the workload arrives on the weather’s timetable instead of the lesson plan’s.

Best forTurning a competent instrument pilot into a comfortable one.

  • Counts toward the 40Yes
  • Needs a safety pilotNo
  • Available hereMornings, seasonally
  • Teaches the scanWell, and more besides

What the measurements say about this field

MeasurementFigureHow it was counted
Training-capable days3554 daylight hours at 3,000 ft ceiling and 5 sm
Days clearing basic VFR minimums3634 daylight hours at 1,000 ft and 3 sm
June, 7am observations meeting training minima40%Hourly ASOS observations, June
June, 11am observations93%Hourly ASOS observations, June
June, from 1pm97–100%Hourly ASOS observations, June
August, 7am observations84%Hourly ASOS observations, August
Everett, Washington278 daysSame thresholds, same twelve months
Hillsboro, Oregon277 daysSame thresholds, same twelve months
The training

What does instrument training here cost?

The rating is a published figure. The extra dual on hard days is the thing worth budgeting for separately, and we would rather you did.

The rating, fixed

Instrument Rating

$11,700

The rating built around 14 CFR 61.65, priced once and fixed at enrolment.

  • Instrument instruction toward the 40 hours
  • The 250 nm IFR cross-country
  • IRA knowledge test preparation
  • Fixed at enrolment
Read the cost page

Airline Career Track

$89,000

Zero hours to a commercial certificate and a flight instructor rating, with this rating as phase 2.

  • Five phases, one figure
  • Financing from $2,500 down
  • No repricing at stage boundaries
Read the career track page

Redbird MCX session

$189

Full-motion and enclosed. It is not cloud, and it does not pretend to be. It is where procedures get cheap.

  • Approaches, holds, partial panel
  • Never cancelled for weather
  • Credit limits at 14 CFR 61.65(h) to (j)
Read the simulator page

Comprehensive Private Pilot

$15,900

Phase 1. 14 CFR 61.65(a)(1) requires a private pilot certificate before the instrument checkride.

  • 55 hours single-engine
  • 5 hours Redbird MCX
  • Books and materials included
Compare the private programs
Dual instruction taken after the rating, on days you judge worth flying with an instructor aboard, sits outside every program figure. Enrolled students fly a single at $179 wet, which is the only hourly rate published on this site and which covers the airplane and its fuel rather than instruction. Your medical examination, the IRA test fee and the examiner’s fee are yours to pay.
How we know

Where do these weather numbers come from?

One dataset, one stated method, and its limitations printed alongside it. That is the whole basis for every figure on this page.

355

Training-capable days at this field

NOAA ASOS observations, taken through the Iowa Environmental Mesonet, for the twelve months ending 1 August 2026. A day counted only where four daylight hours held a 3,000 ft ceiling and five statute miles of visibility.

NOAA ASOS via the Iowa Environmental Mesonet
363

Days that cleared basic VFR minimums

The same observations against the lower threshold of 1,000 ft and three statute miles. The distance between 355 and 363 is the size of the marginal band, and it is small.

Same dataset, same twelve months
2

Known limitations, stated

Automated stations can misread thin layers, and wind is not modelled at all in this count. A day that scores as flyable can still be a day an instructor declines. We publish the method so you can disagree with it.

Method published in full
11

Instructors who decide, not a dataset

Every one holds a commercial certificate or an ATP, an instructor certificate above it, and a current medical. A go or no-go call belongs to the instructor on the day, and no weather statistic overrides it.

14 CFR 61.183 · 61.23
$0

Weather claims we cannot support

None on this page. Every figure here comes from one public dataset with a published method, and where the data does not support a claim we have left the claim out.

Published in full
Actual IMC questions

What people ask about actual instrument conditions here

Some, and less than in most of the country. NOAA ASOS observations recorded here across the twelve months ending 1 August 2026 returned 363 days clearing basic-VFR thresholds for four daylight hours. What instrument conditions exist arrive mostly as a morning marine layer between late spring and late summer, and they lift through the middle of the morning.

For the hour requirements, yes. 14 CFR 61.65(d)(2) asks for forty instrument hours, actual or simulated, without distinguishing between the two, and 14 CFR 61.51(g)(1) permits logging instrument time whenever the aircraft is operated solely by reference to instruments under either condition.

Legally it is identical. Practically, you will hold privileges that exceed your direct experience of the conditions they permit, which is a gap to close deliberately rather than a defect in the rating. The five steps on this page are how you close it.

Early morning, in the marine-layer months. Across June, the 7am observations reached a 3,000 ft ceiling and five statute miles only 40 per cent of the time, against 93 per cent by 11am and 97 to 100 per cent from 1pm. If you want to see cloud here, book the dawn slot.

It depends what you are optimising. The same dataset gave Everett in Washington 278 training-capable days and Hillsboro in Oregon 277, against 355 here. More actual instrument time, and roughly eleven more weeks a year lost to weather. For a career route on a fixed budget, tempo usually wins.

For procedures, largely yes, and a Redbird MCX session at $189 is never cancelled for weather. For the experience of entering a layer it substitutes for nothing at all, and we will not pretend otherwise. The credit ceilings are set at 14 CFR 61.65(h) to (j) in any case.

14 CFR 61.51(g)(1) permits logging instrument time only for flight time during which the aircraft is operated solely by reference to instruments, under actual or simulated instrument flight conditions. For recent instrument experience, 61.51(g)(3) also requires recording the location and type of each approach and the name of the safety pilot where one was required.

Buy dual on the first genuinely marginal day rather than flying it alone. An hour with an instructor in real conditions is worth more than a great deal of additional hood time, and it is the purchase most newly rated instrument pilots skip.

It delays more than it cancels. A layer that puts the field below approach minimums at 7am is often gone by 10am, which is why the schedule here absorbs weather more easily than the calendar suggests. Wind is a more common reason for a scrub, and the 355-day count does not model it.

Because it is true, and because a student who discovers it in month three has been sold something. The measurement that makes this field attractive is the same measurement that limits it, and printing only the first half would be dishonest.

Ask the awkward question

Ask your instructor how much cloud they have actually flown in

It is a fair question and you will get a straight answer. Book an assessment flight, ask for time under a view-limiting device inside the hour, and ask about the marine-layer months while you are on the ground. You will leave with a written read and a schedule that has the early slots in it. Enrol within a day and the fee comes off the program.

Free consultation
Assessment flight
$229
One hour of dual instruction. Credited whole against a program you enrol in inside a day.
Before you spend anything

Fly the aeroplane once, then decide

The assessment flight is the first hour of the syllabus and a two-way evaluation. You fly it from the left seat with an instructor beside you, they write down what they saw, and you get an honest read on whether the plan is realistic. It is loggable, and it is credited in full against enrolment if you enroll within 24 hours.

What happens on an assessment flight →

6 aircraft types, owned in-house 355 flyable training days, measured at Van Nuys Every price published on the page
Assessment flight
$229
60 minutes, left seat, loggable. Credited in full against enrolment within 24 hours.